We had the honor and privilege of having Cardinals President of Baseball Operations Chaim Bloom as our guest for this week’s episode. We could not be more excited about the direction of the podcast. Gabe and Scott, you guys are the best, and I can’t do this to the level I want without you, and all of the wonderful guests we have had the privilege of speaking with this year, and will continue to do so, to bring to you, the frequenters of this site, the best product possible. One other unrelated topic, I hope that in my time at VEB, I have provided you all with content that you weren’t expecting or have over-delivered on whatever expectations you had upon my arrival! Enjoy!
Topics discussed:
– Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
– Analyzing Matthew Liberatore’s Performance
– Nolan Gorman’s Development and Strikeouts
– Chaim Bloom’s Experience Across Organizations
– Managing Expectations and Early Season Success
– Deciding on Pitcher Roles and Performance
– Addressing Trade Rumors with Players
– Impact of Upcoming Draft on the Franchise
– Philosophy on Player Extensions
– Player Promotions and Development Strategies
– Fostering Growth and Honest Feedback
– Catching Depth and Player Versatility
– Urgency and Long-Term Strategy
– Evaluating Player Performance and Development
– Challenges with Tink Hence
– Reflections on the Season
– Engagement with Fans and Organizational Focus
– Trade Conversations and Deadline Dynamics
– Leadership Changes and Future Directions
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Transcript:
Jake Wood (00:37)
Welcome to the Viva El Birdos Podcast. As always, I am your host, Jake Wood. I am joined by fellow writers Gabe Simons and Scott Plaza. If you enjoy this episode, please be sure to like and subscribe to our channel. We are available on YouTube and all of your favorite audio streaming platforms. Today is a special day. You know very few markets in professional sports make their head decision makers available to come on platforms such as this. And you know, I would be remiss if I didn’t take a second to extend our collective appreciation to our guest today and the St. Louis Cardinals for their willingness to accommodate such a privileged experience. With all of that being said, today’s special guest is the Cardinals’ President of Baseball Operations, Chaim Bloom.
Chaim, we sincerely appreciate your taking the time out of your busy schedule to join us today. How are you?
Chaim Bloom (01:39)
I’m doing well, and it’s an honor to be on here with you guys.
Jake Wood (01:42)
Thank you so much. Now, before we start grilling you with our exceptionally difficult questions, you know, I wanna throw out a quick disclaimer. ⁓ that we will not be asking Chaim about specific trades or extensions, as he has stated publicly in the past, he will not discuss the details of those discussions, and any disclosure of those details could harm his leverage in those conversations. So I just wanna put that quick blanket statement out there that, you know, those topics are off the table essentially, and that wasn’t Chaim’s doing, that’s our understanding going forward. So but you know, I do ⁓ Chaim, I do want to start with a player who is, you know, a major talking point right now amongst Cardinals fans, and that’s Matthew Liberatore You know, from your seat and the advanced data that you guys have internally, what, if any data points are you are are providing optimism to you that Libby can, you know, right this Ship?
Chaim Bloom (02:33)
Yeah, look at the last ⁓ X number of starts and just, you know, recent outings, obviously tough for him, ⁓ tough for all of us. I think it’s not what anybody wants to see. You know, we’ve, as you can imagine, spent a lot of time on this. And, you know, if there were easy answers, we’d have found them, and ⁓ you know, we would be out of this. But I do think there are some nuggets that we’ve seen just in terms of, you know, when you zoom out, there’s a lot of things there that are ⁓ not that different or even in some cases better from ⁓ where he was last year and where he was coming into the season. There are some things that we’ve particularly focused on. You know, a lot of what’s happened has come on contact.
It’s come during a select number of big innings. So there’s been a lot of energy spent on that. Some little things that
You know, we’ve looked into even some things we found, but of course, obviously, you know, even going into last start, ⁓ we did still fall victim to that big inning. So we’ll continue to work on it. There’s a ton of effort being put into it and a ton of optimism ⁓ on getting him out of this. You know, it’s not that long ago we looked at this guy coming off a great spring, going into the season, feeling great about where he was at. He’s had some bright spots during this season. That’s not to diminish obviously the totality of the body of work so far in twenty twenty six. But, you know, we don’t want to be ⁓ passive here, but we also don’t want to be too knee-jerk and reactive and miss an opportunity to get somebody through this who we know has some talent.
Jake Wood (04:00)
As as just a quick follow-up, would you say it’s more of a commitment to Libby as a starter or maybe more of a lack of another younger option forcing their way into the spot, a la like a Jimmy Crooks or a Blaze Jordan did in their situation? Or would it be a little bit of both to kinda hedge that?
Chaim Bloom (04:16)
Yeah, I don’t know if it’s an either-or. I mean, we believe that he can do this. I know he does as well. We always want there to be competition, and you know, it’s one thing that I’ve said in a number of different forums that ⁓ we want to make sure that we’re staying with players, not being reactive, and most importantly, not giving up on guys, not giving up on guys prematurely. But there is competition in this game. The competition should come you know from within. It should come from our other players, and the reality is there’s X number of spots, and it’s always a meritocracy. But we also want to make sure that we don’t throw up our hands, and we’re staying with everybody. And if you know, the competition that is inherent in this game means that people take certain opportunities, as has happened in a couple of places this season, and that’s part of the game. But we also got to make sure that we never stop working towards the best version of every player.
Gabe (05:05)
Speaking of struggling players, not to focus too much on the players that are struggling, but what’s the plan with Nolan Gorman? Because I know he’s just a guy who’s gonna strike out a lot, so you’re not gonna tell him to stop striking out, ’cause that’s just a part of his game. So what is the plan with a player where you just know strikeouts are part of the deal?
Chaim Bloom (05:22)
Yeah, look ⁓
You said it. You know, there are plenty of players whose strikeouts are part of their game and we’ve seen Nolan be productive with that being the case. He had gotten to a point where the swing was just so uphill that it was really not allowing him to get to his power and to get to that quality contact that we know he can make, where it was giving him very limited opportunity ⁓ to hit a fastball, just because of ⁓ this, where the swing plane was. And then also, ⁓ along with that, if he ends up out in front on a changeup, just not giving himself an opportunity to stay through it and make contact. With those pitches, so you end up that proverbial in between. So when he went down to Florida and worked in a lab, a lot of that was creating training environments where he could address that. We were encouraged by the work there, and wanted to test it out in games. Obviously we know that’s gonna be a process too when you’re getting back in game action. But that and the long and short of it is that’s what we’re trying to do. There are obviously some other things that go with that in terms of approach, in terms of timing, but really we wanted to get him back to the version of himself that, while there’s still gonna be swinging and missing there that goes along with the power, gets his swing to a place where he can get to his power more frequently.
Scott Plaza (06:32)
I’m gonna zoom this out a little bit. Instead of talking about the struggles, let’s talk about ⁓ kind of the good stuff here. So you’ve been with major league organizations for quite a while here, worked with three different teams, and all three places were very different from each other, market size, history, payroll, and all that stuff. Has that impacted your time in St. Louis at all? And how like is it fun or challenging to figure it out in each new place you go to?
Chaim Bloom (06:54)
Yeah, well, first of all, I don’t mind talking about the struggles. It’s kinda I mean, this is sort of what we do. I was actually joking with somebody in-house last night, and this isn’t entirely true. It was a joke, but there’s a little bit of truth to it that so much a part of my job is just imagining all the worst-case scenarios and then doing everything we can to make sure that they don’t happen. That’s part of preparation. ⁓ There are also fun things that we get to do, and fun things that we get to imagine. But one of the cool things about this and all the places I’ve been, you get to wake up motivated by the chance to make something better. And usually that means something’s not exactly where you want it to be. And I personally get a lot of energy from being able to tackle something like that. So I don’t mind those questions. But yeah, look, you know, one of the things that outside of just knowing this is a great organization, great people, ⁓ great ownership, one of the things that I thought was really interesting about.
This opportunity when it first arose is that it had some really cool elements of the different places that I’ve been ⁓ in terms of you know, some of the the sort of all eyes on you nature ⁓ of the Boston market and the history and the importance of the organization in the community, ⁓ and just the deeply, deeply personal relationship that the fans have with the organization. And then also the continuity and the us against the world mentality that I grew up with, with the Rays. Not that every organization can’t have elements of both, but you know, it certainly felt like this one did. And you know, now having spent you know, real time with three different organizations. I think it’s incredibly valuable to just have those different experiences, both the positives, the things you learn from when you had success with something, and you take lessons out of it of what you can replicate or what you can bring to a different situation. And then even some of the setbacks. And you know the reality of it is, you know, I’m so proud of the 15 years that I got to be a Ray and got to spend with that group and some of the things we accomplished. But there are things on the way out the door that once you have that outside view of your own work, you can say, ” Man, we could have been better at this. Or we weren’t you we got a lot of pats on the back there was a little bit of a halo effect around everything that we did there but we weren’t really that great at everything we were really good at some things and there are some things we could have done better and sometimes it’s hard to see that until you’re out of it so you try to take all those lessons and then you know bring them to your next stop and
You know, I’m cognizant of the fact that because I have so much pride in the work that I was able to do in both places, that you walk in here and there’s a lot of people very proud of what is, and you better honor that and respect it and learn from it at the same time as you try to take the lessons that you’ve learned and bring them, you know, bring them here, because that’s part of the job is obviously to bring the benefit of that experience to bear on on whatever you find here.
Jake Wood (09:31)
You know, I’m curious, I’m you know, given that experience, I’m curious how you think about navigating the next twelve to twenty-four months. ⁓ You know, some fans I’ve spoken to believe that the rebuild is already over and it’s already time for contention. You know, do you have any concerns that this sugar rush of excitement fans have felt over the first couple of months might lead to higher-than-appropriate expectations, kind of in the immediate future? I know that, you know, all a big part of your job is kind of, you know, ⁓ reining in those expectations. So I’m just kind of curious how you’re looking at the early-season success that the Cardinals have had on the field, ⁓ and how that kind of ties into the direction that the team is going right now.
Chaim Bloom (10:12)
Well, really good question. ⁓ first of all, I wanna be very clear about something. We love success anytime we’re able to have it. ⁓ it’s really hard to have success in this business. Big league wins are hard to come by, every single one of them, so you never take any of them for granted. And you know, what we’ve seen early in terms of just seeing some of the energy from our fan base around this team. It’s not just the results, although I know that helps, I think you know, our fans are really smart, and I think they’re able to intuit and see even from a distance that this group has a different energy about it. That this group genuinely enjoys being around each other and competing together, and that energy is picked up on, I think, by our fan base, which is not a surprise. Obviously, you don’t take for granted that it’s happening. So every bit of this is really cool. And the other thing I want to make clear is that our expectations are always sky high. You know, we I’ve you’ve I’ve said it since day one here. This is the organization historically that set the standard for the rest of baseball. We cannot let that standard slip, and we want to have really, really high standards at all times. The things that I the thing that I’ve tried to make clear is that standard’s always changing. And so it’s not just somebody else’s standard that we live up to. It’s a very high standard that we get to set ⁓ time and again as as we go on in this organization. But I also understand the question that ⁓ it’s really easy to think in terms of quote unquote ahead of schedule. I don’t like to think that way. To me, that distracts you from what you’re trying to do. There is always the work in front of you. We have enjoyed more success than I think some people thought we would have early in the season by staying focused on that work, by keeping our feet on the ground, by being realistic about where we’re at, by competing relentlessly, by not taking anything for granted, and but just by grinding day after day, something that I think really is an important part of the identity of this organization. I don’t mind exuberance from the outside. People can get as excited as they want. That’s part of my job is to make sure our feet stay on the ground, make sure we stay head down on the work. ⁓ and certainly a part of that is in the communication you know part with you guys, with our fans, with everybody who loves this organization, but we gotta stay focused on the work. If we get distracted, if we start getting tempted by shortcuts, that will derail us. So it’s really on me and on us as an organization to just make sure we keep doing the right things. And what you hope happens with that, just like what has happened in the first half of the season, is that good things come from not getting tempted by those shortcuts. That if you try to, if you try to do something you shouldn’t, if you try to quote unquote get ahead of schedule, well you the game’s harder than that.
And it’s usually gonna punish you for that. So we’re going to get the best results and and and get rewarded by keeping our focus where it needs to be and just going brick by brick and trying to win every day. ⁓ and I don’t just mean on the field, but win every day in the work that we’re doing and stack those days and then look up and see where we’re at, rather than by trying to reach for things without really having put in the work.
Gabe (13:07)
How do you know when it’s time for a starter to go to the bullpen? And sometimes you’ll have players who obviously fail at the major league level and that’ll make it easier, but with all the pitching prospects in the system you’ll have to make that decision before then. So what what makes that decision for you?
Chaim Bloom (13:22)
Yeah, again, some of it that the the the game, you know, you gotta try to listen to the game. And again, there’s a that’s there’s an art to that, right? It’s not perfectly easy just because a guy has such and such ⁓ an ERA, or you know, the last week or month or two months have gone a certain way, doesn’t mean that it’s time to do that. There, you know, Oli was talking about it last week with Andre that it would have been really easy to do that at many different points. And, you know, not saying that, hey, we solved the puzzle. Like you cannot solve this puzzle, you can’t beat this game. but the strides that he’s made and the things that he’s accomplished, we would not have seen, you know, had we kind of taken the easy way out with that. So that doesn’t mean it’s always easy. There’s not a perfect answer. There is no formula for this. Trust me, I wish there were.
But there is some judgment layer on it and just really trying to peel back some of the things that are more variable, some of the things that are noisier, and just try to get down to the things that are most indicative of where you’re actually at. And then try to make a real plan that’s grounded as much as you can in evidence and and a little bit of baseball field to try to see the path forward. And again, then factor in the competition. Where’s everybody else at? Because we do only have so much opportunity. So the players are going to compete for that opportunity. But at the same time, we we we gotta try to keep our focus on the things that are most indicative of where someone is, and then all the realistic paths to get them to a better place.
Scott Plaza (14:41)
Alright, so I played a few levels of indie ball and I understood that we were the most replaceable players out there. ⁓ ’cause there’s two dates we hated, the draft and the trade deadline. Jake’s gonna get to the draft here in a second and trying to still avoid like the whole, you know, what are we doing at the trade deadline type deal. ⁓ we we we were we worried about those because we knew there were gonna be new faces coming in, some of us were gonna lose our jobs. So as rumors come up, how do you go about like addressing those with the players? Like we know this is, you know, it we hear it’s a business so everybody understands, but like Sonny Gray was on the record of being like, I really don’t want to move again during the season. So how do you go about like addressing those rumors when like there’s either truth or not truth to those?
Chaim Bloom (15:21)
Yeah, it’s important to recognize as you just highlighted, obviously we can sit here and sometimes we have to and and think about this very transactionally because we have jobs to do, but everybody in this game is a person. And there is a business side to this game, there’s a dark side to this game, and sometimes we all end up on the business end of it. I know I have. And, you know, those experiences I I like to think they help you handle these. I think number one, first and foremost, look, I believe in operating very relationally. I think that’s been a big part of how I built my career. I think people do appreciate it. I think I’ve gotten a lot out of it. I think it makes it easier to help people to move something forward. so I don’t shy away from trying to understand our players as people and relate to them on on a on a on a personal level to the extent that I can. And I think there’s a lot of good things that can come from that. There’s a lot of trust that can get built from that. Whether that that means your next conversation’s gonna be a great one or a tough one, it comes on a foundation of some kind of trust. At the same time, one thing I think is really important, you cannot hide or pretend, you know, you can’t hide the fact that there is that business side. And I think you you you lose a player when you try to pretend that that that doesn’t exist because they know that it does. So you try to be realistic about that, where you know, there’s there’s on one hand, I feel, you know, I owe it to everybody in here, players and staff, from the second you walk into this organization, from the second you leave, I want to treat you like I would want my own children to be treated if they were here, if they if if they were working somewhere. And try to take that personally. And at the same time, we have to make business decisions, and that comes with the job.
And that is part of it. So I just think you try to be very open and realistic about that. There is some element of, you know, sometimes players don’t want to broach those conversations, even if they want to have them. And you know, there is a feel element to that where sometimes there is a time. And you learn this by when you do it and it goes well. And sometimes when you miss the opportunity to do it and you realize after the fact that somebody would have wanted it.
⁓ that there is a time to to to have a conversation with a player and kind of read them into a little bit of what could happen. And some guys don’t want that. So there is a feel element to that. That’s part of where I think the relationships re the relationships help just to get to know people a little bit and understand what they might want. You know, they know we have jobs to do, but you want to try to make this as easy as possible for them. I think in the case as you mentioned, Sonny, obviously Sonny’s in a little bit different situation because he had a no trade clause. So he had control over this too. So, you know, just from a business standpoint, you need to work collaboratively with someone like that and understand what he wants. But even in the case where a player doesn’t have that, I still think, you know, them feeling like the door is open, look, this game’s hard. ⁓ and you don’t want to add stress onto the stress that’s already there that just comes with the business. So to the extent that players feel less stress around just being open with us, understanding what’s going on to the extent that they want that, I like to think that that can help everybody feel a little bit more comfortable around here and just make it that much easier for them to be their best selves.
Jake Wood (18:31)
You know, like Scott had mentioned, the Cardinals hold six of the top eighty six picks in the upcoming amateur draft. You know, how much of another shot in the arm can that be for a franchise looking to reinvigorate a pipeline that, you know, this franchise, like you’ve mentioned, has historically leaned on for annual contention. You know, you y the aforementioned players who were trained in the offseason. Obviously Donnie was another guy that, you know, I’m sure that you yourself and Cardinals fans alike did not really want to see go out the door, but you were able to make a deal where it was worth the while to get this additional draft capital going in the direction that the team is. So just can you again, can you kind of talk about, you know, how how impactful that could be going forward and the amount of picks that you guys have coming up?
Chaim Bloom (19:16)
Yeah, and you nailed it as far as the emotions around that deal. I mean, you know, sometimes you have to break your own heart in a sense, just the person and that and the player that he is, but also, like I’ve said, feeling like I would not be living up to all the things that I said in the fall ⁓ if we, if I didn’t pull the trigger on that. And a big part of it was, you know, the value we place, you know, this is not to diminish the value of the three players we got in the deal, but the value we place on the those two picks and the chance to to add to our to the impact we can make ⁓ on this organization coming up in a few weeks. And you know, certainly it’s a big opportunity for us. But every draft is a big opportunity. We just happen to have a a little more opportunity in this one because of that deal. But it’s one of the most impactful days of the year and and it’s important to recognize, you know, everything happens on those couple of days, but the prep is really a year round process that our team in the front office and our scouts are putting in. And it is a massive opportunity. I mean, we will live and die with the strength of our pipeline. That’s not news to anybody who follows the Cardinals. And so making sure that we have the most impact possible out of that draft is a huge focus for us right now.
Gabe (20:27)
⁓ sorry, Jake, I’m gonna ask a little bit of an extension talk. ⁓ so from a process standpoint, what boxes need to be checked, what for you to consider assigning a player to an extension? Like is there something they they need to do? Nobody specific, but just what do you look for when you want to sign somebody to a long term extension who’s currently under team control?
Chaim Bloom (20:48)
Yeah, there’s so many things that go into this and I think, you know, it isn’t Jake, you mentioned early on that we wouldn’t talk about that because of the leverage piece. That’s not really what it is for me in this topic. It’s really just that it’s a very personal thing, I feel. ⁓ obviously it’s it’s, it’s a private thing on some level for an organization, but it’s a really personal thing for the player, and so you never. I just don’t feel like it’s our place to talk about those things because inevitably, if you’re gonna do that, you end up talking about them selectively. And I I just not I’m not sure that’s fair to everybody involved. ⁓ you know, so there’s so many things that go into it, which makes it hard to generalize. Obviously, how you assess the player is so important, but I think these sorts of things, and I’ve talked about them as like I don’t like the terminology about hey, we’re bestowing this extension or rewarding a player with an extension that you so often see thrown around. I mean, I guess yes, on some level that’s what’s happening, but to me, you know, the the players have agency in this too. And it’s really kind of a it’s a sharing of risk going forward and a sharing of upside going forward. And that’s something that both parties are gonna have different stances on what that could look like. I think for me, it’s also as much a statement about the person as it is about the player. And again, I don’t think people should read into it when there isn’t an extension that means we don’t like the person or don’t like the player. It’s just there’s a lot of discussions around these in the industry and not a lot of them that happen in the grand scheme. That’s because it is pretty hard to come together on these sometimes. But you know, when you’re talking about ⁓ kind of locking arms with somebody in that way, ⁓ when you still have, you know, a lot of team control with them, ⁓ a lot of it is ⁓ you know, just having a read on who the person is and is the person the right type of person for this sort of arrangement. And again, even if they’re not, that’s not necessarily a negative. There are some guys that you see over the course of their careers that man, they do so much better when that carrot’s always in front of them, when they when they have that chance to go year by year and and max it out. That’s a personal preference, and sometimes it’s our read of the person. But a lot of it is about trust and just feeling very confident that the security that a player gets through the through that type of deal is not going to change them, is not going to diminish their hunger to win or their desire to be great. You can’t know that for sure, but we try to get as good a read on that as possible because again, players are motivated in different ways. So you want to make sure that you know, even when you approach a player, that they’re they’re wired in a way that it makes sense to get into those conversations whether or not they lead to a deal.
Yeah.
Scott Plaza (23:15)
Now, talking about a way a player is wired, like Ivan Herrera has played every single game while working, you know, to prove himself as a catcher while also being a top bat in the league. Like was well, being on pace for like four hundred and sixteen, I think, hit by pitches this year. Is playing every game did he come into that like with that was a goal in mind? Or is it just like that’s just the way it’s worked out and it’s been successful so far?
Chaim Bloom (23:37)
It’s not a goal that I’ve heard him express. That doesn’t mean that he hasn’t expressed it, but ⁓ you know, we’re fortunate in the way that this has worked out because obviously put a lot of energy into the catching thing throughout the offseason, you know, want to diminish the effects of actually having had a surgery in the offseason and coming off of that, and I give a lot of credit to him, to our staff, both our skilled staff, ⁓ coaching staff and and our performance staff in just monitoring his health and his workload very carefully so he has been able to post for us the way that that he has. And hopefully this is something we’re able to continue. It’s damn hard. For him to do that over the course of a season. You need some luck on your side too, just for it to go well enough for that to be the case and not need to miss some time here and there. But ⁓ believe me, we notice it, we don’t take it lightly. It says a lot about who he is.
Jake Wood (24:22)
You know, I wanna clarify something really quickly on the the extension conversation that was had previously. I I didn’t want to get into specific players like Chaim had mentioned. That’s what I was trying to avoid was like, hey, why aren’t you extending JJ or Jordan Walker or Destin Like I don’t wanna like get into specifics, but I felt like your question of the overall ⁓ like how he approached the extension, that’s fine and and fair and in-game. So I like that.
Chaim, I wanna go a different direction. What are some key elements to your philosophy on player promotions, right? What are the elements that you take into consideration the most when determining a player’s readiness, you know, for another level, much less just for the major leagues?
Chaim Bloom (25:03)
Yeah, well when it comes to ⁓ promotions within the system, I mean for me, I don’t look at my role as to kind of dictate from up here exactly what should happen level to level. I wanna be in those conversations, particularly around you know, some of our more prominent players. And basically a lot of that for me, my job is to to try to ask tough and smart questions if I can. And you know, to understand the why, especially when something, you know, might be a little atypical. But but you know, I love the way that our our people have thought through these questions. It doesn’t mean we’re gonna get every single one of them right. And sometimes it’s hard to even know if you got it right. really we want to be put these players at all times in the right place for them to grow the most. And the goal of the whole thing is to help these guys reach their ceiling or as close to it as we can get them. And so you want to have players at every step of the way on the right path to do that, understanding that there are 165 of them. And sometimes you have to balance some competing considerations within that. So, you know, I I view my role as really trying to ask those questions and make sure that we are hitting that goal and how and and that we have some thought process behind why this level makes sense for this particular player at this time. The way I can, where I do think I can add some value to those discussions for our PD crew, is sometimes just maybe giving a bigger picture or even just getting into a conversation about how I’m seeing this player’s path, whether it’s in twenty twenty six or beyond, just making sure we’re in sync on that. If I think, you know, this is where a player’s at relative to where he might need to be to come to the big leagues and our people think something different, well let’s talk through that. Sometimes I learn stuff, sometimes we have good baseball conversations, some good debates around that. But for the most part, you know, I view it as something where whenever possible in this game, I think you always want to push decisions to the people who are closest to the action. There are obviously some decisions that can only be made from this chair, but ⁓ a lot of those promotion decisions are not those. So I I just view it as an extension of my responsibility to try to help and push our people and help them grow and just try to challenge them with tough questions. But when push comes to shove, ⁓ are the you you want to make sure like you it’s hard to sit here and think you know more about a particular situation than the people that you have charged and tasked with with those situations. So, you know, I hate and almost will never do it, you know, kind of coming over the top of those decisions like that. But I like to have a seat at the table to be able to challenge and then push people. And, you know, I insist on dissent and honest feedback in those conversations and I want people to do the same for me just because I think it might be time to bring a player to the big leagues. If people who are close to the action feel that is definitely not the case, you know, I need to create an environment where they feel comfortable expressing that so we can get to the best decision for the organization because all that that’s all that matters. It doesn’t matter who’s right.
Yeah.
Gabe (27:56)
So I want to address the catching depth a little bit. ⁓ catching is kinda like starting pitching where you want to keep them at catcher as long as possible because it’s the hardest position. I feel like you guys will have to certainly make some trades, but maybe move some people off the position and what would go about like have you had conversations with players in the system or even in the major leagues about moving to a different position and what position they might play?
Chaim Bloom (28:23)
Yeah, with respect to our catchers, first of all, it’s amazing to to have this problem because it comes from having some really good catching talent in the organization. And that’s pretty cool. We I think generally speaking, as guys go through the minor leagues, we want to try with almost every player building some versatility into every player. So you see it that our catchers play other positions. And it helps when you have multiple catchers that you want to get some action behind the plate at the same level. Now they’ve got other places they can play. So you don’t just have DH as an outlet to get those guys in the lineup. And that’s something we want to build in for everybody. And so what it means is that if it comes time at some point for them to play another position, or even if it ends up down the road just making sense for the club, not because they can’t catch, but because other people also can and you have different ways and give your manager different options to make out a lineup, especially for the guys that bring a lot to a a lot to the table offensively. You know, that’s part of why it’s good to build versatility into these guys. And that’s how we explain it to really all of our players. So you see, ⁓ you know, we we we’ve got it going with ⁓ a number of our catchers throughout the system that you’ll see them, not just DH, but you’ll see them play first. You might even see them at other spots in the infield or you might even see them in the outfield. Like that’s something that should be the norm for us, and not just at that position, but just have different options, you know, try to create players who are not Faberger eggs, who are not so fragile that they can only do one thing, that they can only play one position, that they can only hit in one spot in the lineup. Like, it’s our responsibility to prepare them for anything and prepare them for all of the differing circumstances and the adversity and the adjustments that they will face at the highest level. So I think that’s all part and parcel of it. If we got to the point where we actually wanted to take the catching away from somebody, you know, then obviously that’s a different conversation. And some guys might welcome that, some guys might not. Obviously you hope at that position in particular that guys wanna do it. ⁓ and you never wanna force it on somebody who doesn’t want to do it because it’s just not gonna work, but you know, for the moment, I think just creating options for ourselves and and creating that versatility, it to me, there’s only positives that can come from that. And again, just gives us more options, gives us more options for a big league club, more insurance against injury or underperformance. And yeah, I think it also creates options for us over time. If if there’s a way for us to use the trade market to do something that makes sense for the organization, it creates some options there too.
Scott Plaza (30:49)
I’m sure I know the the kind of vibe of your answer coming to this one based on you as a competitor from what we’ve taken in here. But ⁓ you have the supportive ownership, obviously, with the the promotion and like the length of term in your contract, as well as being able to extend OLLI ⁓ for a couple of years. Does that allow you to take a breath and relax and be like, okay, this doesn’t need to be done now? Like again, I I’m sure that’s gonna be just an absolute no. ⁓ but do you also view like that term as kind of like a a deadline for a lack of better terms to get back?
Chaim Bloom (31:21)
You know, I think if I’m gonna sit here and say like, hey, I don’t like the ahead of schedule term, then I think it would be just wrong of me to to look at that look at your question and say like that’s some sort of timetable. ⁓ and also wrong of me to put my own personal considerations into it. To me, you you gotta go you gotta you you just gotta get after it every day. Like I said, regardless of any kind of contract term, like in this business, we all gotta earn it every single day. We all gotta act as if everything’s on the line for us every single day. Like that’s how I feel. And that’s, you know, what I would want from any of our people. You know, I try to talk all the time about urgency. And now where it is important, you know, relative to your question is that does th that still might mean, hey, today is not the day to do something. And some things are going to take time. And there may be some things that it makes more sense to tackle tomorrow or next week or next month or next year or just some things that you can’t expect to bear fruit right now, you still do them. You still get after ⁓ urgently with whatever you can put into them today. So it’s, to me, like the strategy or you know the time that it might take for some things to come to fruition, that is unrelated to me, to the urgency and the effort that we need to put into them. You try to zoom out and take the most honest look at that as you can, but you really have to figure out every possible way that you can further the organization every given day. And yeah, like I said, some things might not might not happen today. But that should be because we decide to prioritize and we prioritize well. It shouldn’t be because we did not just bring enough of ourselves to our jobs to get to it.
Jake Wood (33:12)
You know, to to jump off of Scott’s earlier point, you know, I’m gonna bring some positivity, right? We all love to talk about positive things. We’re watching Josh Baez demolish baseballs in Memphis right now, and you know, raw power, in my opinion, is one of the most seductive elements for baseball fans, and that coincides with the current lack thereof from the big league club recently. You know, can you explain the value of things that you’re looking at like chase rate and whiff rate and some of the things that, you know, Baez is currently working on
And how refining those elements ⁓ is is like essential for Baez to have success at the next level?
Chaim Bloom (33:48)
Yeah, and you kinda hit on what I would point to. And I think it’s awesome that I keep getting this question because of what he is doing down there. We should not take that for granted. Obviously, you know where where Josh was a couple years ago and how remarkable last year was and and just how rare that is. So much credit to him. So happy for the people that poured into him and worked with him to get him to a point where he could get to his power the way that he has and really show off all of his tools as he continues to do on the bases and on defense and continues to improve there. And love where his head’s at and how he gets after his work. ⁓ the the example he sets. I mean there’s so much to like about this guy. ⁓ and those are things that we monitor. Obviously the power ⁓ the power is there, the understatement of of the podcast, right? ⁓ it it’s it’s big league power. ⁓ early in the year actually, like ⁓ even though you know you would see that power play and you and he would create those highlights I think particularly early in the year, actually when you look under the hood, there was even some backsliding a little bit off of spring training in terms of swing path, in terms of some of those things, in terms of pitch selection and in terms of contact. And it was even something you could see actually in his path and some of the other things that we monitor and measure. And you know, i as more season has gone on, and I I like to think due in part to the work that he’s been doing with our staff, we’ve seen that actually trend back in a in a good direction and get a lot closer to where he was last year. And some of that’s now being reflected in those numbers that are easy to track in in terms of strikeouts, in terms of of pitch selection. So you want to see those continue to move in a good direction. We know those will be tested and you know tested big time in the big leagues. So seeing those go in a good direction is is really gratifying. Just shows that he is putting in good work and, you know, continuing to master this level. And like I told you guys, there’s there is some art to it. I can’t promise you there’s a perfect formula to know, okay, like when has he done that to the point where you know he cannot benefit anymore at that level, and it’s time ⁓ for the next challenge and certainly he’s moving in a good direction towards that. I like I said, I can’t promise you there’s a there’s a perfect way to assess that, but love what we’re seeing from him, you know, particularly in recent weeks and months.
Gabe (36:00)
What is the ⁓ status update on Tink Hence? Because usually when ⁓ his problem is injuries, but he’s, I think, been healthy all year. So what has been going on with him and is do you think he’s close to fixing whatever’s going on with him?
Chaim Bloom (36:13)
Yeah, this has been a tougher one. And it’s not due to lack of effort by our staff or by Tink, who is a a a wonderful kid and a tremendous worker. As you can see, just following him outing to outing, we have struggled to help get him to a point where he can bring his A plus game from pitch one every time. And he’s flashed it, but we have not been able to see it consistently. There’s been a lot of work behind the scenes just on getting him ready for those outings in in from a movement perspective and from a prep perspective so that he can access some of those but high end velos and obviously this his superpower has been, you know, that velo and also the changeup that then goes with it to be able to speed guys up and slow them down, but also from that slot that he’s able to create it from. We just gotta make sure that we can help him bring that from pitch one every time. And, you know, obviously as you can see just by watching him, to this point it has not been there. that doesn’t mean it’s not in there somewhere because we’ve seen him flash it, but we have not yet solve that puzzle of being able to get him there consistently. So we continue to talk about that and continue to work at it.
Scott Plaza (37:15)
Alright, my last question. ⁓ besides being on this podcast, what has been the best part of this season for you, either personally or professionally?
Chaim Bloom (37:23)
that’s awesome. ⁓
I’m I’m lucky in that as challenging as this business is, and as much as there’s times when you wake up in the middle of the night and you’re just staring at the ceiling trying to figure something out, like the game also brings us so many wonderful things. And man, you just gotta keep your your yourself open to them because there’s so many great things that happen every day. Like I’m always super energized just by the relationships I get to build through this game, the people I get to be around. ⁓ so much of what, you know, I take pleasure from in this game is not just the the challenge of trying to build something great, but to do it with people that I’m invested in. That’s sort of my professional why, so to speak. ⁓ I think with that, you know, probably the the most fun part of this so far. I mean, look, winning is winning always makes things more fun, believe me. It’s ⁓ you know, you’re kidding yourself if you’re not it if you’re not honest about that. But beyond that, I think it’s where the culture ⁓ you know, within the organization and particularly within our big league clubhouse right now is going and that player group specifically. ⁓ you know, there’s a couple things that I would highlight and and even, you know, with our staff where ⁓ I think the way that they’ve embraced this project and just embraced some of what we’ve talked about about really when you can see that light at the end of the tunnel really sticking with players and you know staff, good staff take the successes and failures of players personally. And so it can lead when a player, when it’s not clicking for a player, can lead to frustration. And, you know, when that goes wrong, it leads to, you know, we talked about earlier, it can lead to giving up on a player before you should. And I’ve just been so happy with the way our staff has I haven’t felt that at all from them. that doesn’t mean they’re not frustrated when things aren’t going well, but they’re they’re staying in the fight with these guys. And I think that’s what a young group needs. And then from the players, like we talked about it from from day one. It’s really I I I think we spent as much time this off season and in spring training as a staff and particularly me and Ollie talking about culture and where we wanted this to go. And, you know, we had different ways and touch points to try to to lay that down for the players, but we can’t do it for them. They’re the ones that are that need to do this. And so trying to create that feeling with them of what I talked about earlier that, you know, the standard here is really high, but it’s not somebody else’s standard that you have to live up to. It’s yours that you get to create. You know, this is, it’s an amazing organization within an amazing game, and you have this privilege of setting your standard and writing your chapter and and they’re doing that and they feel that and they’ve kind of picked it up and they’re running with it. It’s not perfect every day. But I think, you know, taking ownership of that for themselves and running with it and defining for themselves what that’s going to look like. Look, look, this is something we build on every day and hopefully this is something that continues to evolve and grow ⁓ for years to come.
But just feeling that actually become real for these guys and every game, you know, there’s obviously wins that it becomes real through, and there’s also close losses where we battle back from a four-nothing deficit and score three in the in the ninth, or a six to one deficit and score four in the ninth. And yeah, at the end you don’t win and you’re you’re you’re sitting there with a bad taste in your mouth. But it’s like, hey, this is part of it too. This is part of this identity that these guys are building for themselves. And knowing that we wanted to see that and wanted to try to nurture that, like they have to do it, but we can hopefully till the soil in such a way that makes it a little easier for them. And so then when they pick it up and run with it and you get to see do it, like it’s it’s it’s pretty gratifying.
Jake Wood (40:50)
Chaim, I want to kind of flip the script on you a little bit. You know, whenever you’re in a professional interview, it’s always good to ask the interviewer questions. I want to ask you, what do you think is a question that’s not being asked of you enough, or an area or element of the franchise that’s not being talked about or covered enough that you think needs to be highlighted more?
Chaim Bloom (41:13)
This is a good one. I, you know, I was not ⁓ eating breakfast this morning and trying to think, what are these guys gonna ask me? What do I need to be ready for? This wasn’t on my bingo card, so good work. ⁓ might be hard for me to say in a sense because you know, it’s hard to always know exactly what’s on people’s minds. And I know no matter what’s going on in the organization, big league wins and losses are where the focus are gonna be at i is gonna be at, and that’s the way it should be. ⁓ so I so it’s it’s it might be hard for me to pinpoint. ⁓ I’ll say this is a complete dodge of your question, but I’ll say this. Like it was kind of it’s become even more apparent to me in this seat as it was the last couple of years, like our fans are on top of this.
Like I think this is a fan base that even more than its reputation, like follows this closely enough to really intuit what’s happening and what’s important. ⁓ both the good and the bad. I like it because it pushes us. You know, it brings the best out of us. Like you should want and welcome that engagement and that scrutiny. So I’m not sure that really that many stones are being left unturned, man. I don’t, I don’t ⁓ I don’t know that there’s anything that’s been missed. I just think it’s hard, obviously, for you guys or anybody who’s not within the walls to really see what it looks like every day. I think where so much of my focus, my energy is on is making sure like it’s cool that we got off to a good start. We actually have not accomplished anything yet. And my focus needs to be on and trying to make sure like we don’t do what you said, that some people might be doing is saying like, hey, we’re ahead of schedule, mission accomplished, cool, we figured it out. Like we can’t ever feel that way. And just to make sure that that hunger in the building is still the same as if we were 20 games under 500 and wondering, you know, all these different things that need to move forward that that but that’s not something that I necessarily expect people to see from the outside. You know, there for me, you know, we’re really just at the beginning of this. There’s so many things that I think we have so much room to grow in. ⁓ the fruits of that ultimately you’re you see them on the field, ⁓ if they work. So it’s not something that ⁓ really can be seen from the outside. probably a lot of them I couldn’t even tell you about, or at least my thoughts on them. ⁓ so I don’t expect it to necessarily be the subject of questions, but you know, to me it’s a lot of this is about just regardless of the results so far. You know, I I’ve talked about it a little bit, where I’m happy to be able to get questions about your farm systems rank this and that relative to where it was a couple of years ago. That’s awesome. But if if my ask of our people is like, hey, we should a always act like we’re thirtieth, then what does that look like every day? What does it mean we try to move forward on or or or or fix every day? And that should happen no matter what’s going on in the big leagues.
Gabe (44:08)
So for my last question, I I feel compelled to ask a little bit about the deadline. when do conversations start with other teams?
Jake Wood (44:14)
Broke the two rules I had,
Gabe. You broke the two rules!
Chaim Bloom (44:18)
How can you not ask though, right? Like I would ask.
Gabe (44:19)
Yeah.
Well when did when did the conversation start with other teams?
Jake Wood (44:23)
sure. Go for it. Go for it, Gabe. I’ll let
I’ll but I’ll let him I’ll let him answer. Go for it.
Gabe (44:28)
All right. when do they start getting serious and then how long are you typically talking with a team when you actually decide to execute a trade at the deadline?
Chaim Bloom (44:36)
So in my experience, this shifted a little bit when the draft moved back into July. It just kind of changed the cadence of deadline talks in that you almost have like a little bubbling up of them now. That doesn’t necessarily mean there’s gonna be that many deals. Usually there are not, but you have these sort of like, you know, before the halfway point, after the first third of the season, you have these check-ins. And to me it used to be more of a straight line, just kind of leading up to the deadline. But now that the draft is where it is.
When you get that close to the draft, unless they’re trades specifically that might involve some of those few tradable picks that exist, you know, usually teams are kind of putting that on the back burner because they need to focus on the draft. And then you have the all-star break and everybody like takes a little bit of a breath, like make sure our families don’t completely kick us out of the family for a few days, and then and then now you’re back into it and it really heats up.
But you try to lay some of that groundwork. You don’t want to miss an opportunity if there’s something that could happen at this time of year that actually makes sense for you. It’s just usually that urgency created by the deadline tends to mean that most of those happen later anyway. But there are some conversations. Teams are already assessing needs, or they’re already think that there’s something that they might want to do. Sometimes there’s particular urgency that an organization feels to execute on a certain thing. But it’s kind of like you you you get some of it, and then everybody
Sort of focused on the draft, and then then it really picks up again. So it does it does start to happen kind of about now. And actually we’re almost approaching to where we are going to be pretty buckled down on the draft to where that’s less likely to happen, unless, like I said, it involves a pick. sometimes you do see those close to the draft. And as far as deadline trades and how much conversation, man, it’s all over the map in my experience. There are things that
I mean, I’ve been a part of trades, including some really big ones at the deadline, where literally some version of that concept had been talked around for y years between these two organizations, either because they want one of your players, you want one of their players, vice versa, you know, no one’s really ready to meet the price, or you could you can’t quite align, and then something happens and you could literally say, Man, we’ve been talking to them about so and so for years, and finally something happened. And then there are others where they come out of nowhere.
I’ve also been part of some things that you didn’t even conceive of this opportunity until deadline day. And maybe it’s spurred by somebody else makes a different trade, and now a player is available, or a team really changes their goals or their threshold like within hours of the deadline. And that’s it’s it’s fun, it’s exhilarating. It can get pretty crazy when that happens, but it’s all over the map. You know, there are some years where like wild stuff happens within the last couple hours and some years where you’re waiting for that and it ends up being exactly like what you thought, which can still be fun and exciting, but it’s a little bit of a different kind of excitement. So there’s not there’s not any any one formula for those, which is part of why it’s it helps to stay engaged.
Jake Wood (47:39)
Chaim, we’re kinda starting to get to the the close of the show and so I have quite a few topics still on the top of my head, so if you want to we can just kind of quickly touch on some of these. First one, Dustin May was reported that he’s gonna skip his start and then make it on Wednesday. ⁓ everything good on that he just needs a little more rest, or is there anything more to be concerned about more long term?
Chaim Bloom (48:03)
No, we’ve ⁓ it is ⁓ the former, what you said, you know, especially coming off of that complete game was just feeling it a little bit in his low back. you know, we actually did some precautionary testing just to make sure there was nothing ⁓ you know, more serious going on there and and that all looked good. You know, I’m really just trying to be smart with him and you know, try to try to again like the ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure type thing. so we’re still you know, figuring out exactly how we’re gonna slot guy, especially with the rain out.
I’m kinda ⁓ we’re moving things around a little bit, just to try to slot everybody for the next road trip, but anticipate him pitching ⁓ midweek and and being just fine.
Jake Wood (48:42)
This past week you guys had ⁓ announced a little bit of change in the structure and the dynamic at the top of the organization with Bill DeWitt the third taking over as CEO, Anuk being elevated to president of business operations, just your relationship with Anuk, and ⁓ you know, the how if any like a legitimate change in that structure looks for the Cardinals moving forward?
Chaim Bloom (49:07)
Yeah, obviously a big announcement and big news for the organization and and ⁓ great ⁓ and and well deserved for both those guys and that you know been nothing but great in the time that I’ve gotten to know each of them. ⁓ it’s actually, you know, within the organization, really like day to day, it’s not going to change much. To me, it’s just the next step in in where we’ve been going. You know, Nook has been here actually a little longer than I have ⁓ on the business side. And so, you know, like, I got, he comes into this now with a ⁓ a runway and some impact already in the organization and some great relationships throughout the organization. You know, I’ve enjoyed getting to know him and working with him and looking forward to partnering with him so that we can move towards our goals together. ⁓ and as far as Bill the Third, again, when I when I came in here and and and particularly in you know late summer in 24 when we were you know talking about the succession in this role, you know, to me, this has actually been very straightforward and ⁓ you know, very smooth in terms of the DeWitt family and and and working with both of those guys to make sure I understand where their heads are at and their expectations for how this organization needs to be run. And like I’ve said before, I think the consistency of that operating model and how they’ve thought about this is something that’s really envied throughout the industry. And it’s been incredibly smooth working with both of them. ⁓ I I’ve looked at it as my responsibility to do that from day one here. And you know that’s continuing forward. So to me it’s actually it’s really smooth and and very continuous. And you know that’s how you hope it goes. That you know over time in organizations there’s going to be different people taking on different responsibilities. There’s going to be succession plans. You want those to be smooth. ⁓ you know not not to say that we can’t all benefit from having our personal snow snow globe shaken up every now and then, but when possible to avoid unnecessary disruption, you want to do that. And I think so many of the ways that the organization’s going about things, whether it was what they did with with me, or what’s going on now with those two guys is actually helping that. And, you know, hopefully that helps us avoid some of the bumps in the road that could come when you’re not doing this in as smooth a way. So it’s been great.
Jake Wood (51:15)
You mentioned the word succession and ⁓ you know, Mo yesterday it was announced that he is the new interim GM for the Angels. what was that short amount of time that you were able to work with Mo pretty hand in hand? What was that like and what was like the key thing you were able to take away from working with him on a daily basis? And what do you think he’s gonna bring most to the angels and in that new capacity for them?
Chaim Bloom (51:38)
Well, first and foremost, I mean, I think what a great get for the Angels. And, you know, it looks like ⁓ something that’s ⁓ an amazing opportunity for all parties, really well set up. I’m sure he’s gonna do a great job with it. You know, the more the more time I’ve had to kind of reflect on that period that we overlap, the the more ⁓ privileged I feel to have had that time. You know, in this business, you compete against your counterparts all the time. You don’t unless it’s somebody that you kind of came up with and came up with in the organization, you don’t really have the chance to work together. So you don’t have the chance to really see people operate. And here’s someone who operated a really high level for a long time, accomplished some great things that, you know, I got to work with and and see operate ⁓ you know, for his last couple of years in this role. And again, that’s just not something that a lot of people get to have. And there’s a lot of things that I was able to take from it, hopefully that feeling is is mutual for him. ⁓ but I really enjoyed it and it was something that, you know, I really treasure. I think probably one of the best things I took from ⁓ from him and just seeing him particularly at that stage of his time here and what was an incredibly long tenure in an organization and in this role was just the value of time and the value of being present and how well he ⁓ did and does that, ⁓ something that really sticks with me.
Jake Wood (53:00)
You know, I actually forgot at the very beginning that Chaim promised to tell us exactly who he’s trading for, who he’s extending, and what’s gonna happen in over the next two months, but unfortunately we’re out of time today. So thank you so much, Chaim, for joining us. we really appreciate you hopping in here and and we hope to be able to have you back on in the in the future to talk some more ball. We really appreciate this. Thank you so much.
Chaim Bloom (53:19)
You bet. Thanks for having me. We’ll have to get to all that juicy stuff next time.
Jake Wood (53:23)
That’s right, we’ll talk about what happened as opposed to what’s going to. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of the Viva El Birdos Podcast. Don’t forget to rate and review and hit that subscribe button so you’re notified every Monday morning when a new episode is released. We will talk to you all next week when we are joined by Cardinals’ longtime public address announcer, “U-Man” John Ulett will join us. Have a great day, St. Louis, and let’s go cards!
-Thanks for reading/listening
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