For better, for worse, for discourse, we saw our first “piggyback” start Tuesday night. Bryce Miller, in his second appearance back from a stint on the IL, carried a no-hitter into the sixth inning versus the White Sox, looking much more 2024 than 2025. Castillo came in and gave two solid innings of relief before things fell apart in the ninth. The Mariners wound up losing the game 2-1in one of the least fun games to watch this season by far. It’s sparked plenty of discussion about what the Mariners are supposed to do with a healthy Gilbert, Kirby, Woo, Hancock, Castillo and now Miller. -NV
Nick V: I’m happy with the “piggyback” approach. I know last night, it was more Castillo out of the ‘pen than a real piggyback, but I like the idea that it’s flexible on a given night based on who’s pitching and how they’re pitching. Bryce was throwing gas and so he got to throw almost 6. But if he was starting to fade in the fourth, now Castillo gives you 4 innings. Last night was just one way it could go.
Kate: But last night was about as good as it could go minus the ninth and it was still hard on them. Did you read Bryce’s postgame comments where he said basically “Hey man, I’m just an employee here”? I just think it’s too much disruption to the starters and their routines and if they’re unhappy, they can’t do their best work. Plus, Bryce also said the whole point is to do whatever it takes to win and they didn’t even win, although that’s more on the offense I guess. But now two of your pitchers have made this sacrifice and there’s still an L on the board.
Also it must feel so crappy for whoever is getting piggybacked. Luis I think can take it in stride at this point in his career, but I’m worried this is damaging to Bryce after everything he’s been through, now he has to figure out a way to escape piggyback jail. I don’t think it’s a coincidence he took a no hitter into the fifth or sixth or wherever it was last night.
Nick: I don’t think any pitcher ever wants to come out of any game, but the point is taken. That being said, historically Bryce has averaged about 5.1 IP per start. He obviously had more in the tank last night, but that feels more an exception than a rule. I feel like the value of this approach is flexibility and mitigating risk.
Re: Bryce’s quotes, that sounds like a communication issue or a lack of a clear game plan issue by the coaching staff. They should have made it very well and clear that, for example, Bryce was never going to pitch more than six innings so empty the tank for those six innings, or whatever the plan is.
Evan: For the first time in the Dan Wilson era, I feel like the team off the field failed the players on it, and that’s very out of character for them. They’re a smart organization. They are generally more tactically sound, even if they don’t play up to it.
Eric S: It does seem like the kind of thing that lives or dies by how it’s communicated and/or sold to the starting pitchers, similar to buying into the opener approach a few seasons ago. Like no starter in their right mind prefers this approach, right? They’re all extremely confident, stubborn dudes, otherwise they would not be here pitching in MLB. They have routines, like you said. But, if team unity and buy-in by the players is strong enough, then it seems like the piggybacking approach could work as long as they actually win games. If they blow it like last night one or two more times, I’m sure they’ll have to abandon it.
Kate: I’m thinking about Bryce’s “our job is to throw however many pitches they say” comment and it strikes me how little agency there is in that statement. Which seems to directly contradict the whole “conviction” thing they drill into every starter. I’ll try to find the sticker again, Kirby has it in his locker, but it’s something like, “command, control, conviction.”
Nick: You were the one actually talking to him, though. Was his “however we need to win we will do it” seem genuine or was he hitting one of these?
Kate: I don’t doubt Bryce is willing to do whatever it takes to win, but I am not sure he thinks this is the way to win. But I might be projecting my own feelings. He was mad for sure, but I guess that could have been about the loss in general.
Connor: I think going to Ferrer for Murakami in the sixth was totally sound process.
Evan: I don’t have an issue with them using Ferrer, it just feels inconsistent with their own stated objectives. It’s weird to defer to Ferrer in the 6th but not Munoz in the 9th. That’s where if you’re doing that to “piggyback”, you lose me.
Nick: Process-wise, I agree, Connor. It’s like the whole platoon thing, I don’t like judging decisions like these based on results just because the sport is so variable, especially with how few times it happens. It is about the process. And I feel like if players are feeling a lack of agency, it’s a coaching/communication issue. I mean, even if we went to a normal pen day after 5.2, he probably is just as mad, right?
Ryan: I thought the piggyback went great honestly. I think it’s good for Miller and I think it’s the only shot Castillo has of making it to the end of the season on the roster. I’d like to see 10 Miller starts while maintaining velocity and effectiveness after each turn before letting him free.
Evan: I think this is it. I was really pondering it this morning and the only reason this makes real sense is if they are a bit skeptical of long term Bryce and just wanna walk it all the way out.
Kate: 10 starts?! That’s nearly 3 months. I think Bryce Miller would call those 10 starts his “rehab assignment.”
John: I don’t doubt Miller and Castillo find it frustrating in this moment. I’m skeptical though that the mental alteration translates ultimately to a deleterious impact on them broadly. This is Nathan Eovaldi’s career! Seth Lugo’s, Michael Wacha’s, Michael King, etc. There are tons of guys who handled a piggyback or swingman role for a while and came out of it as good or better. And Bryce was horrible last year. For as much as we hope and believe he’ll be back to his 2024 self, he dragged the team down for months when they desperately needed him.
Kate: Lugo, Wacha, King didn’t come up in an organization that tells you if you’re not going six you are actively hurting the team, though.
John: I can’t say I know what the specific instruction was, but the 2016 Mets, 2011 Dodgers, and 2013 Cardinals had their starters going longer than the Mariners did when Miller came up. The 2019 Yankees… were not doing that in fairness, lol. Just to say tho, the M’s stand out by expecting the baseline that was expected 0.5-1 generation of pitchers ago, so I’m not sure it’s so out there compared to veteran examples.
Nick: Kate, Evan, as the two of us who are probably least happy with this approach, would you rather move to Bryce Miller as the fifth starter and Castillo as a reliever? If so, what role do you see him playing? Swingman, higher leverage?
Evan: Yes. And it aligns with the positive things people saw last night from both guys. The people who feel it went well I think are expressing positivity about Castillo’s first two innings and only second ever non-start, which is super valid. I think just letting him roll with that is the way to go without being beholden to this other, less consistent ruleset they applied last night. Get the best from Bryce, the best from Luis, prioritize winning the game! And if they gotta stretch Luis back out in a few weeks, we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. If you can get 4 innings from Castillo over two appearances a week as opposed to 5 innings in a start, that’s a fine trade for where we’re at.
Gotty: Luis going from 97 to 94 between innings is concerning and makes me think he’d be best suited to a one-inning role if they go the bullpen route.
Evan: Honestly, if that’s the case, even better. Dan loves 1 inning stints, why complicate anything?
Kate: I’d rather them go to a six man rotation. I understand the argument against is your best pitchers pitch less but I think because there’s no extreme cliff between the front and back end of this rotation and I would argue even the best have been very inconsistent this year it doesn’t matter in the end and might be beneficial. It does force you to a shorthanded bullpen but I think that’s solvable with Criswell, or you have a starter be a swing guy, in this case Castillo.
Evan: I actually completely agree with the six-man. I’d do one thing or the other though. Not the other third thing they tried last night.
Nick: I’m okay with that, I suppose. I think that the idea of the piggyback is you’re able to get more out of your two guys, because they have to go less often, so instead of having two of them be, on average, just okay, for a total of ⅓ of the team’s starts, you can have them max out for one of the starts. I still think that it worked, and should be given a couple more times to be explored more fully. So actually I change my mind, I think six-man is actually the worst of all worlds, honestly.
Anders: I think if you were to get an honest answer from Jerry and Dan they’d say they don’t plan to run the six man or piggyback out forever and it would probably be more convenient for them if Castillo was good and Miller and/or Hancock was not (rather than the reverse). Castillo being bad and the others being good makes it so complicated.
